In this lively exchange between Lex Fridman and Michael Malice, both converse on a variety of topics ranging from absurd humor to health and unique creatures. Malice, the anarchist author, shares his past experience of owning a peacock mantis shrimp as a pet – an unusual, exotic, and frightening creature. He describes the shrimp’s intriguing looks and dangerous abilities. With eyesight that outdoes any other animal, punching claws that deliver as strong a punch as a bullet, and spearing claws that can cut to the bone, the creature is as beautiful as terrifying.

This leads to a discussion about unique creatures being a significant interest for Malice, notably more than space, which he considers as dead. Having a specimen in his home and observing its behaviour was an incredible experience for him. However, he had to eventually give it up due to issues related to its molting process, yet he still thinks about the creature and has kept a pair of its punching appendages.

The conversation then leads to Malice’s thoughts about tattoos, asserting that if he ever got one, it would start a domino effect and he would end up with countless more. When asked about what his first tattoo would be, he amusingly quipped that it would be his face, setting a humorous tone for the ongoing discussion.

Afterward, Fridman and Malice discuss their views on humour and the specific types of comedy they enjoy. Malice admits to finding absurdity amusing and shares his viewpoint on how skilfully dealing with intense or emotional subjects can draw laughter and provide relief. They also jest about potential tattoos of dictators, highlighting Malice’s personal connection to North Korea due to writing a book about it, leading to a humorous détente about Dennis Rodman.

Talking further about humor, Malice also adds his view on how people from oppressed societies or marginalized communities often contribute disproportionately to comedy, as they’ve unique perspectives arising from their experiences on the fringes of society. Living ‘outside’ gives them a unique viewpoint to see absurdities in mainstream culture and lighten the harsh realities of life with humor.

This podcast segment kicks off with Michael Malice sharing a humorous anecdote. It seems his signature comical style stems from an understanding and appreciation for the absurd. This, he demonstrates by laughing about a genie joke that tickled his funny bone rather profoundly.

Entertainment isn’t the only thing Malice pulls from his humor. Revealing that his favorite comedian is Norm MacDonald, Malice reflects on MacDonald’s unique brand of comedy. MacDonald, he says, has a knack for pulling laughter out of moments of awkwardness, exemplified by an instance on the Conan O’Brien show where MacDonald cleverly turns an awkward situation into a hilariously memorable moment.

The conversation then diverts, bringing the topic back to Malice’s own personal life. In particular, he expresses genuine gratitude for his family. He paints a vivid picture of interacting with his six-year-old nephew who, having caught on to the family’s love for humor, is already showing talent for pranking and comedy. It’s quite evident that this nephew, among other things, brings much joy and laughter into Malice’s life.

On a lighter note, Malice and Fridman exchange some humorous banter about one’s entertainment preferences being an ice breaker in Russian social settings as opposed to its American counterpart which they both agree leans more towards small talk.

Eventually, the focus turns to Malice’s choice in comedy again, this time as he reveals an unusual favorite comedian – Neil Hamburger. According to Malice, Hamburger’s unconventional style of turning not so funny jokes into hilarious moments leaves him in stitches. He recalls a performance where Hamburger managed to win over an initially hostile crowd, exemplifying the power of comedy to unite individuals.

The duo exchanges their opinions on actor Jack Black, crediting him as a “comedic genius of a different kind” and discussing his versatility. As the conversation spins around his various performances, it’s clear both speakers deeply appreciate his ability to incite laughter.

Finally, the segment concludes with Fridman questioning Malice about something he’s thankful for in life. After some witty exchanges, the comedian finally reveals his gratitude for the seemingly constant argumentative nature of his family, fostering laughter from both participants.

Writing with intelligence, wit, and an apparent intense relationship with his father, Michael Malice exhibits a deep sense of gratitude for the ability to avoid making the same mistakes due to the lessons he learned at an early age. He appreciates the influence his father’s intellect and humor had on his life, as well the encouragement he received towards learning. Malice humorously mentions having 98 books on his shelf yet to be read, indicative of his continuous pursuit of knowledge.

Diverting to the subject of careers, Malice expresses satisfaction and fulfillment from being an author with complete creative freedom, whose works resonates with an audience enough to sustain his lifestyle. He cites the underlying reward as not requiring a boss and being friends with individuals he admires.

Adding to their discussion on gratitude, Malice reveals a piece of personal news; he is undertaking a graphic novel project that had previously been a script in his drawer for over 20 years. This development appears to have given him immense satisfaction, as he considers the script as some of the best writing he has ever done.

The conversation advances towards the feeling of loneliness with both Malice and Fridman discussing their individual experiences and coping mechanisms. The significance of having supportive relationships and a network of people to connect with becomes a focal point. Malice, referencing his move from New York to Austin, shares how it helped him combat feelings of isolation and loneliness.

Exploring the concept of ‘making it’, both Malice and Fridman agree that being able to pay bills from doing what they love is indicative of success, rather than fame and wealth. Malice humorously reflects on the moment he felt he had ‘made it’ – when he owned former PM Margaret Thatcher’s bookcases.

Their conversation culminates with a brief discourse on the proposition of Texas declaring independence, with Malice wittily labeling himself a ‘loser’ for championing a failed cause. In a bid to conclude their expressions of thankfulness, the cultural value of reading and audiobooks comes into focus, with Malice expressing admiration for historians Masha Gessen and Victor Sebestyen.

Delving further into the podcast, the conversation takes a more philosophical turn as Fridman and Malice unpack the dualities of humanity and its capacity for good and evil. Malice predominantly views humans as fundamentally deranged beings, with civilization and decency acting as a thin veneer. He emphasizes this perspective with references to the Orwellian concept of the ‘Two Minutes Hate’ and the tribal tendencies inherent in mankind.

As he talks about shows like “hoarders” and “You should leave,” Malice paints a picture of the very thin line of civility that separates everyday normalcy from man’s inherent streaks of insanity. Disagreeing with Fridman, Malice insists that human beings are amiable and civil, but this does not necessarily signify a deep-seated propensity for good.

Bringing history into the conversation, Malice leans into the discussion by comparing people like George Soros and Anne Frank, stating how inappropriate it is to categorize them under the same definition of a Holocaust survivor due to their starkly different experiences. He expresses distaste towards comparing the atrocities of the Holocaust to other historical events. For him, using this comparison waters down the valuable lessons from this dark time in history.

Their conversation then veers to the subject of art and the ways it can express and capture human emotion. Fridman brings in a box containing a sculpture made by Jake Michael Singer, a fan of the podcast from Turkey. Malice then talks about the importance of possessions that symbolize one’s achievements or sentiments, pointing out how it can elevate spirits during difficult times.

Furthermore, Malice also addresses a trend where mostly conservatives believe that contemporary art tends to be abstract, ugly, or even literal garbage. He refutes this notion by listing a series of galleries that display beautiful, non-exorbitant pieces that add value to people’s lives. He emphasizes the importance of beauty and joy in art and challanges the belief system of those who discredit contemporary art.

Continuing the discussion, Malice talks about his appreciation of stand-up comedy and his preference for minor performances with less audience, where the essence of humor and human spirit is laid bare. He gets nostalgic about moments watching Gilbert Gottfried perform in front of a meager audience at 3 AM, and his admiration for comics including Norm McDonald, Louis CK, and Mitch Hedberg.

Conversations about the local comedy scenes in Austin follow, expressing admiration for comedians like David Lucas, Ty-Rera, and Dave Landow who consistently deliver standout performances. Fridman and Malice share laughter over several inside jokes, transitioning to a lighter atmosphere compared to their previous philosophical digressions.

A beautiful handcrafted statue becomes a symbol of the conversation’s theme as Malice focuses on how affordable, unique, and personalized pieces of art, such as the one before them, invigorate the human spirit. He criticizes cynicism, advocating instead for celebrating small-scale artisans who add value to the world.

Malice then segues into a daring and humorous comparison between sculptures and the platform OnlyFans, further lightening the tone of the conversation. The men laugh over their shared jests, alluding to the joys of humor amid serious conversations.

The conversation shifts to a more reflective tone as Malice shares what he is thankful for, including his social media platform, which he believes allows individuals to make connections they otherwise wouldn’t have. Acknowledging that corporate dishonesty can be exposed through social media platforms, he appreciates the sense of community and connection it builds among people.

However, the topic of anti-Semitism casts a shadow over the conversation. Malice insists that anti-Semitism is not an ordinary form of hatred, as its advocates openly endorse potentially lethal outcomes. He shares an insight from a book he read, “The Satanizing of the Jews,” describing a distorted perception where Jews are viewed as the source of all evil but disregarded when they contribute anything good.

The conversation progresses to Karl Marx’s quote on religion being the opium of the people, sparking disagreement from Malice. Rejecting the dismissive attitude towards religion, he argues that it has led many people he knows to become objectively better individuals. He compares such dismissiveness to the mockery often found towards recovering addicts, stating that if religion or self-told narratives help someone improve, there is no harm.

Throughout these segments of their discussion, Fridman and Malice engage not only in rigorous debates but also let loose with bursts of laughter. They journey through differing perspectives on humanity, faith, comedy, and art, offering a dynamic blend of philosophical insights and humor.

The conversation takes a turn into the territory of international relations. John Mearsheimer’s theory of ‘offensive realism’ is discussed. This theory posits that nations, in a bid to survive, maximize their military power most times due to uncertainty. Michael Malice diverges from that view, arguing that the world is gradually aligning more with Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World than George Orwell’s 1984. According to Malice, China’s influence in America appears to be more rooted in soft power – through educational institutions and social media platforms like TikTok – than military power.

Offering a counter-narrative, Malice feels American cultural and intellectual “superiority” isn’t the byproduct of its military might but rather the export of its popular culture. He postulates that American music, TV shows, and movies have been instrumental in fostering a sense of connection and unity with people from other countries.

The topic relocates to Malice’s personal life as he shares about recent additions to his art collection. He talks about an ancient Egyptian Thoth statue and an Ibis mummy he acquired, finding inspiration as an author in the god Thoth’s association with writing and knowledge. He also expresses appreciation for a unique Patrick Nagel painting he owns.

Moving ahead, the discussion becomes more profound as Malice talks about gratitude and paying tribute to those who came before us, urging the audience to truly ‘live life to its fullest.’ He mentions the benefits of having a sense of awe and respect for life and history, signified by his fascination with trilobite fossils.

The conversation shifts gears to craftsmanship, discussing French-Algerian author Albert Camus’ work. While Malice doesn’t particularly like Camus’ novels, including ‘The Plague’, exactly why remains a point of contention.

The focus then moves onto Malice’s interviews, where he shares his approach towards conducting them. He speaks about the importance of making the subjects feel ‘seen’ and how he aims to ask questions they haven’t encountered before. Moreover, he appreciates individuals who are accomplishing unique things and are passionate about their craft, indicating that these traits give him the most pleasure. Delving further into this, Malice humorously hypothesizes about hierarchy and breeding dynamics within the world of guinea pig breeders.

In concluding this part, Malice describes himself as an ‘anarchist without adjectives,’ a philosophy that doesn’t dismiss any form of anarchy outright. He criticizes ‘anarcho-capitalists’ for lacking respect for their ‘left anarchist’ counterparts. Now, let’s get back into the discourse.

Returning to the discussion, Malice brings about his peculiar fascination with shaving. He reveals an ‘off the charts’ system he’s developed – a cycle of 67 different shaving soaps he prefers to use. Stumbling upon this unusual habit after a visit to his friend Cole’s house, he finds joy in the variety of his soaps, each bringing a unique scent and shaving experience. Malice hints at how this everyday act becomes an opportunity for sensory delight and an almost therapeutic activity. He even humorously suggests the idea of measuring one’s life in soaps, turning our attention to the beauty and importance of personal rituals in leading a fulfilling life.

Malice also offers some insights into the pursuit of happiness. He advises us rather than striving to be the best, we should aim to be better. This approach seems more manageable, less intimidating, and focuses on personal growth, which he acknowledges is especially effective when complemented with solid metrics and control over one’s behavior. He also encourages individuals to take risks, make mistakes, and emphasizes the value of perseverance.

Addressing the topic of negativity, depression, and self-criticism, Malice distinguishes between low points and depression. To him, depression manifests when things aren’t necessarily dire but one’s perspective and feelings suggest otherwise. Parallelly, he also discusses different types of depression, such as exhaustion-induced depression and extreme self-critical negativity. In combating these, Malice endorses improvements in one’s behavior and recommends Magnesium supplements.

On the topic of fear, Malice surprisingly expresses little personal fear but voices concern over the rise of authoritarianism. He is not afraid of death, even viewing his accomplishments and impact on the world with a sense of contentment. Finally, when discussing betrayal, a subject seemingly inevitable in public roles like his, Malice clearly values loyalty and trust. Nevertheless, he cautions against letting one’s past betrayals color their future interactions and refrains from empathizing with those who’ve wronged him. Instead, he sympathizes, wishing them well but not dismissing their actions.

As the conversation advances, Malice talks about his trust in people. He confesses he doesn’t have a filter initially when meeting individuals, generally seeing the good in everyone. He acknowledges the downside of this approach when he faces disappointment; though rare, he admits such instances break his heart, underlining the emotional risk of trust and vulnerability.

Transitions occur in the dialogue’s tone. The conversation shifts to heartbreak and love. Both Malice and Fridman share a moment of candor about their experiences. They discover a sense of relaxation and happiness in such heartfelt exchanges, highlighting the therapeutic effect of sharing personal stories.

The conversation seizes around notions of beauty, gratitude, and perceptions. Malice refers to a scene in the film “American Beauty,” where a character finds profound beauty in a wind-danced plastic bag – a traditional symbol of waste or garbage. He identifies with this character, embracing the similar ability to discern beauty in places where others may not. This metaphor stretches beyond aesthetics, evidently addressing personal relationships and human characteristics. Malice and Fridman challenge the narrative of negativity, focusing instead on finding beauty in unconventional places.

Fridman conveys his genuine appreciation for Malice’s friendship, cementing an atmosphere of mutual respect and admiration. As he wraps the conversation, Fridman cites Andre Gide’s quote, which encourages exploration and risk-taking. This quote aptly summarizes the overarching theme of the discussion – from finding beauty to trusting people – it’s all a voyage in the ocean of life, worth every risk taken.

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