Diary of a CEO Podcast | Michael Easter | The Exercise Expert | Podcast Summary | The Pod Slice
Michael Easter, an established author and scholar in Psychiatry, introduces a theme he refers to as the “Comfort Crisis.” Mirroring that the way humans evolved to seek the easiest and most comfortable methods for existence is now detrimentally impacting our mental health, physical fitness, and sense of satisfaction. Easter explains that as conveniences increase and obstacles decrease, humans tend not to be more content, but to seek out new challenges, a circumstance he sees as leading to increasing unhappiness.
Reflecting on the significant shift towards convenience in modern human society, Easter references examples such as digital media consumption, physical movement, and food consumption. He explains how people today consume up to 12-13 hours of digital media in a day, a trend that only began about a hundred years ago with the invention of radio. The physiological impact of the modern “sitting lifestyle” also contributes to increasing heart disease rates, as people opt for escalators over stairs and other conveniences over more physically engaging alternatives.
Easter identifies a direct correlation between the increase in convenience and ensure health issues, like cardiovascular diseases. Drawing attention to indigenous communities in Bolivia, he highlights fundamental lifestyle differences leading to significantly healthier hearts. Essentially, these populations consume single-ingredient foods, mostly unprocessed, that may not taste delicious but offer better health results. This approach starkly contrasts the modern western diet, filled with ultra-processed, calorie-rich foods that often lead to overeating.
Finally, Easter elaborates on the global shift from scarcity to abundance. He explains how people originally needed to strive and work hard to achieve basic survival necessities. But with modern advancements, these necessities are easily accessible, which ironically ends up triggering unhealthy behaviors due to an evolutionary mismatch. This discrepancy between ancient adaptations for scarcity and modern abundance environments constitutes various chronic diseases and mental health problems. He also mentions how crowded urban environments can result in lesser happiness compared to less populated rural areas, suggesting that our physiological system struggles with managing complex social systems over a particular size (Dunbar’s number) and being exposed to constant noise in densely populated areas can lead to stress.
Bartlett and Easter continue to delve into the detrimental aspects of our sound-filled world. Noting how humans have increased the world’s loudness fourfold, Easter links this constant exposure to noise with increased stress and even disease, highlighting a study estimating 2,000 heart disease deaths yearly in Europe due to noise-induced stress. He posits that the design of our personal and professional environments notably contributes to this, calling out open-plan offices as a notable offender. Counterintuitively, he shares that research has demonstrated that workers in quieter environments produce higher-quality work, even though they may not perceive their productivity being affected by noise.
Then, Easter dives into the distinction between being alone and being lonely, and how each of these states affects individuals. Loneliness, he describes, as detrimental to health, increasing the chance of early death, while being alone can offer a time of self-reflection and growth. Interestingly, Easter reveals that solitude-loving people are just as happy as highly-social individuals, emphasizing that it’s important to balance social time with time alone to appreciate each fully.
As the conversation progresses, they begin discussing the implications of technological innovations like Artificial Intelligence (AI) on human social dynamics. Here, concerns are raised about the rise of virtual relationships and the potential impact of AI on increased social isolation and loneliness. Easter suggests that seeking convenience and avoiding relative discomfort of real human interaction may lead to the growth of these virtual relationships but won’t be as rewarding in the long run.
Delving into Easter’s personal experiences, Bartlett asked about his motivations for writing his books themed around comfort and challenge, leading to a discussion on Easter’s previous struggle with alcoholism. He elucidates that addiction is often a symptom of an underlying issue and suggests exploring productive ways to replace addictive behaviors.
In an interesting turn, Easter also spotlights an inner dialectic battle that everyone faces while dealing with addiction or unwelcome cravings. This internal struggle, Easter explains, contradicts the logical understanding of the long-term repercussions of our decisions. The challenge is often trying to moderate this ancient hardware in our brains that inclines us towards short-term gratifications. This idea kickstarts a discussion about why we often fail at striking a balance in our actions despite the well-accepted principle that moderation is key for a healthy lifestyle. Drawing reference from his personal experiences and the world around him, Easter embarks on a quest in his book ‘Scarcity Brain’ to understand why naturally occurring human behaviors (like the working of slot machines) still manage to manipulate us.
While on his tour of a research facility designed as a fully functional casino, Easter dismantles the mechanics of slot machines that exemplify a powerful behavioral loop identified as ‘the scarcity loop.’ This loop comprises three factors: an opportunity to receive something valuable, an unpredictable reward cycle, and quick repeatability. The slot machine perfectly exemplifies this loop – each play provides an opportunity to win money, but the amount and frequency of the reward are unpredictable. Additionally, the loop can be repeated almost instantaneously. Crucially, this powerful behavioral loop is highly effective in inducing repeat behaviors and decimating moderation. The eerie thing is that because of its effectiveness, we see this loop being integrated into many other technologies and systems, from social media to dating apps, financial apps like Robinhood, even gig economy platforms.
While examining this undeniable magnetism, Easter converses with a psychologist at the University of Kentucky who suggests that the roots of this behavior can be traced back to early human survival tactics built around foraging for food. Often, the search for food involved visiting various points without finding anything before hitting the jackpot at some unexpected location – a pattern reminiscent of spinning a slot machine.
Interestingly, this ‘scarcity loop’ based behavior isn’t exclusive to humans – animals fall prey to it too. The psychologist Easter interviewed had conducted experiments that turned pigeons into ‘degenerate gamblers’ by introducing unpredictability in the reward cycle.
Moving forward, the conversation flowed into the realm of social media platforms, where this behavioral loop is blatantly prominent. Every post, like, share, or comment on social networks acts as a random reward within the scarcity loop, serving to both drive engagement and encourage more activity, while the opportunity and instantaneous repeatable action are inherent parts of the platforms. Each interaction gives a varying dose of dopamine rush, thus inciting the need for more.
Breaking away from this cycle is indeed a challenge, but Easter advises that awareness of this behavior and actively attempting to disrupt the loop’s components can be a starting point for reclaiming control from technology’s addictive clutches.
Finally, Easter illuminates the deep-seated human drive for more, attributing it to evolutionary survival advantages. Discussing ‘status’ adds another layer to this conversation, delineating how status games only change with time and circumstances, but the intrinsic need to play them remains hardwired into our psyche. Everyone participates in these games consciously or unconsciously—be it for acquiring material possessions or an influential podcast or personal growth. The narrative again steers us towards the idea that our struggle to navigate modern complexities is often a battle against our primitive brain mechanisms.
Down the clock, researchers found that when people believe they’ve reached their limits, they tend to stop, despite their bodies being capable of going further. Host Steven Bartlett relayed a personal anecdote where he ended up running twice his usual distance on a treadmill, simply because the distance meter wasn’t working. This led to a discussion of how mental perceptions of our limits can hinder actual physical performance.
Straddling on that idea, Easter cites studies where time was manipulated, and people ended up pushing their boundaries, purely driven by the notion of reaching a perceived time goal. Interestingly, studies show that if the clock is slowed down, people often run much further than they believe they are capable of. This discrepancy demonstrates the strong influence of psychology over physical abilities, highlighting a clear separation between our perceived and actual physical limits.
In his book, ‘The Comfort Crisis’, Easter discusses mental fatigue. Tracing back to century-old techniques used by runners in East Africa, where runners learn to endure more by accepting and not resisting discomfort. This allows them to maximize their potential and use every bit of their capacity, hence often leading the world in long-distance events. The core point Easter raises is that our perceptions of fatigue and discomfort are often psychological constraints we’ve built and can be re-programmed with the right attitude and mindset.
Turning to status and health, Easter notes studies showing that higher-status individuals enjoy better health outcomes than their lower-status counterparts, and this holds in countries with universal healthcare. It’s suggested that lower social standing could correlate to more menial or monotonous jobs, possibly leading to more isolated lives and less fulfilling experiences, potentially contributing to a negative psychological and physiological impact on health.
Lastly, Easter and Bartlett discuss the modern food industry, casting light on its evolution over the decades, particularly the concept of ‘snacking.’ Introduced in the 1970s, snacking became a whole new category of eating not tied to regular meals. Fast food manufacturers understood the same scarcity loop of opportunity, uncertainty, and quick repeatability. This led to high-calorie, low-nutrition snack foods, contributing to the rising obesity rates. In contrast, eating unprocessed foods that offer a sense of fullness like boiled potatoes results in lower calorie intake which aids in weight loss and healthier living.
Considering fasting, Easter believes it can be a helpful weight-control tool. By selecting specified hours of the day to eat, one reduces the window of calorie intake, which can lead to weight loss. While it works for some, Easter urges individuals to find the right balance between fasting and maintaining a healthy, fulfilling diet.
Fascinatingly, the issue of perception resurfaces in their discussion on distance running, time, and perceived physical limits. Easter highlights studies illustrating that changes in perceived time or distance can genuinely affect physical performance levels, further cementing the idea that much of our struggle is not with our bodies but our minds.
In the exchange between host Steven Bartlett and guest Michael Easter on the podcast Diary of a CEO, they dive into the topic of how our psychological perception greatly influences our physical exhaustion. They share the idea that fatigue and discomfort are just narratives we tell ourselves, which can be reframed to have a positive impact on our performance. An interesting technique discussed relates to runners in East Africa who learn to endure more by accepting and not resisting discomfort.
Our socio-economic status and its impact on health are another area of focus. Easter cites research that suggests that those with higher social standing tend to have better health outcomes, potentially given that lower social standing may result in more menial or monotonous jobs leading to more isolated lives and less fulfilling experiences.
The duo also discuss the evolution of the food industry, particularly the concept of ‘snacking.’ They trace how this new eating category from the 1970s, drove manufacturers to produce high-calorie, low-nutrition snack foods, which have significantly contributed to the spike in obesity rates. A healthier approach, they suggest, involves eating unprocessed food that offers a feeling of fullness, leading to less overeating.
Easter advocates fasting as an effective weight-control tool, by designating specific eating hours, one can reduce their calorie intake and potentially lose weight. However, he emphasizes the importance of finding a balance between fasting and maintaining a nutritious diet.
The hosts examine how perception affects physical performance, with Easter revealing how manipulating perceived time or distance can have a real effect on physical performance. This again highlights how the mind can be a powerful factor in determining our limits.
A particular observation involves how context plays a crucial role in how we perceive discomfort and happiness. Easter shares an experience of spending 33 days in the Arctic, dealing with immense discomfort and scarcity, resulting in a profound appreciation for everyday comforts like warm planes and hot food.
Easter shares research suggesting that as we encounter fewer problems, we tend not to become more satisfied; instead, we search for the next problem to solve. This, he proposes, is possibly an evolutionary trait, a survival mechanism that may have been beneficial in prehistoric times when constant vigilance was necessary for survival.
They contemplate whether possessing abundance actually leads to happiness, with Easter citing research suggesting that despite significant growth in real income for Americans from 1970 to 2000, happiness levels remained constant or even declined. Easter argues that this indicates that once our needs are met, more acquisitions do not necessarily equate to more happiness.
Exercise is also discussed extensively, with both Bartlett and Easter acknowledging the significant health benefits of physical activity. Easter emphasizes that inactivity should be seen as poison to the human body. They also discuss the benefits of rucking – walking with a loaded backpack. This exercise is shown to be less injurious than running while preserving more muscle.
As the conversation continues, Bartlett and Easter discuss the physicality of our ancestors compared to ourselves today. With decreasing physical labor due to the advent of technology and modern convenience, we’ve seen dramatic changes to our physical health, potentially for the worse. Our bodies have moved from a state of constant activity to mostly inactivity, causing numerous health issues.
Exploring this further, the concept of our modern perception of ‘exercise’ is evaluated. Previously, physical activity was a fluid part of our ancestors’ daily lives; they did not exercise for the sake of it–it was necessitated by survival. Today, in contrast, we’ve engineered environments for specific physical activities, like gyms, which are far removed from the natural conditions our bodies are evolved to handle. Research suggests that psychological stimulation, like needing to navigate complex terrain or consider potential dangers, also plays a key role in exercise. This cognitive aspect has generally been lost in modern exercise routines, reducing the maximal health benefit that our ancestors would have experienced from their physically intense lifestyles.
The conversation also goes into detail about our footwear. Our feet are highly adapted for barefoot walking, with each foot and toe having specific roles in maintaining balance and absorbing shock. Wearing shoes, especially ones with significant heels or soles, can alter these functions and potentially lead to foot health issues. The comparison is made to wearing thick gloves all the time and losing your hands’ dexterity and strength; the same appears to be happening to our feet. Easter suggests the idea of barefoot shoes as a possible solution, giving our feet more freedom and tactile feedback akin to walking barefoot.
Bartlett and Easter explore how today’s society has changed our physical health and behaviors, shedding light on our evolutionary past’s influence on modern health problems. Their discussion highlights how adapting our lifestyles to mimic the movement patterns and challenges of our ancestors could potentially improve our overall well-being.
From this portion of the podcast, host Steven Bartlett and guest, Michael Easter discuss the problems of physical discomfort in our lives. This discomfort often stems from our environments being designed to alleviate us from physical stress but at the potential expense of weakening our bodies, leading to pain or injuries when we attempt activities outside of our created comfort zones.
Easter presents an interesting statistic: 80% of people will experience back pain at some point, largely due to prolonged sitting in comfortable chairs taking the strain off the muscles tasked with maintaining our posture. He provides a simple solution – sitting on the floor more often or avoiding backrest to make your muscles work harder and increase bodily strength and mobility.
Bartlett delves into the consequences of discomfort avoidance and how it can impact our health. A simple example is the choice between taking the stairs or using the escalator. Easter introduces the concept of being a ‘two-percenter,’ named after the 2% of people who choose the stairs when an escalator is available. Such small changes can add up to significant health benefits over time.
They also address how often people disregard such small changes, seeing them as insignificant. Yet when multiplied over time and across many different activities, these choices lead to vast improvements in both physical and mental health. For instance, making phone calls while walking or parking further away from the store can infuse more activity into our lives, which can have lasting impacts on our health. It’s all about looking for these small 2% wins in our everyday lives that can make a significant difference in the long run.
Exploring further, the discussion steers towards another critical aspect: our narrative or self-belief. They agree that our actions are dictated by the stories we tell ourselves and our experiences. Once we step out of comfort zones and endure challenging experiences, we can change these narratives and learn our capabilities, leading to transformation.
The conversation showcases how the absence of forced discomfort in modern living can limit our growth. We’ve created comfort in our lives, which is undoubtedly appealing, but it restricts opportunities to test and push our boundaries. Easter emphasizes the importance of consciously seeking out challenges and experiences outside our comfort zones to encourage growth and understand our potential.
In this podcast portion, Steven Bartlett and Michael Easter cover several intriguing topics. First, they focus on our inherent discomfort with uncertainty and the great lengths we go to mitigate it. Bartlett mentions how a taxi app’s feature—showing your driver’s live location—minimizes uncertainty while till leaves room for excitement, something echoed by Easter stating, “Unpredictability is exciting, it’s captivating.”
They then move to discuss how scarcity, the lack of resources, can force us into innovativeness and creativity. Bartlett reflects on his own experience running out of money in a startup, leading to breakthrough ideas that resulted in hundreds of millions of dollars. Easter mentions a study at the University of Illinois and John Hopkins that proves the same point, highlighting how participants with scarce resources performed better—they came up with innovative ideas using fewer resources.
Easter, further delving into this phenomenon, suggests this could be why underdogs—oftentimes successful ones—tend to cling to their “underdog mentality” for motivation. His read is that thinking “we’ve made it” can lead to complacency and a lack of innovation.
The conversation then swerves to discussing a rather saddening trend—the rise of global unhappiness. Easter refers to a study showing that usage of words like “love” in songs has halved between 1965 and 2015 while words like “hate” have increased fundamentally. Global unhappiness hitting a record high in 2021 adds fuel to this fire.
Their discussion then centers on ‘what can make us happy.’ Easter believes it’s the accomplishment of things that require effort and are not naturally easy. Embracing discomfort and stepping out into the unknown is what he suggests enhances our human experience. For Easter, this capacity for conscious choice is also what encapsulates freedom—being aware of why we’re doing what we’re doing.
Lastly, they briefly touch upon the dilemma of corporations capitalizing on our scarcity brains—the strategies of businesses to maintain engagement that taps into our primitive instincts. They agree that while these mechanisms are problematic, the solution isn’t necessarily corporate regulation, but rather empowering individuals to make conscious decisions.
In their discussion, Bartlett and Easter ponder about individual happiness. A question left by the previous guest, “What makes you happiest?” is put forth. Easter recounts his happiest moments, describing early morning writing sessions, when the puzzle pieces of his work come together and he’s fully present and aware. This, along with spending time with his wife who he calls his favorite person, makes him truly happy.
Taking a magnifying glass to the conversation, Bartlett expresses profuse appreciation for Easter’s insights and the conversation at hand. He commends Easter for his contributions to understanding the human brain, discomfort, and how we can regain control from entities exploiting our neural instincts. Steven posits that Easter’s knowledge is something we need in times like these when complacency rises as things increasingly become ‘easier’ and more comfortable.
In gratitude, Easter expresses that he enjoyed the conversation and cherished the chance to spread awareness about his books—an appreciation reciprocated by Bartlett.
They then pivot to discuss their partnership with their sponsor, Shopify. Bartlett shares his own positive experiences using Shopify for his ventures, describing the platform as revolutionary and user-friendly. He credits Shopify for making some of their product drops possible and extols its simplicity and efficiency.
The conversation concludes (not as a finale but seamlessly continuing into the next topic) with Bartlett promoting a special Shopify offer—a one-dollar trial for a month—and encouraging his listeners to try the platform and share their experiences. He also recommends another podcast episode down in the description, one that followers of the current episode will likely appreciate, subtly indicating that the fascinating discussions will continue.
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Review Questions
Elementary Level Questions:
- What does Michael Easter mean by the “Comfort Crisis”?
- Answer: Michael Easter is talking about how our lives have become too easy and comfortable, and this is actually making us less happy and healthy.
- Why does Michael Easter say that sitting too much is not good for us?
- Answer: He says that when we sit too much and don’t move around, it can lead to health problems like heart disease.
- What is the difference between being alone and being lonely that Easter talks about?
- Answer: Being alone means you are by yourself, which can be good for thinking and growing, while being lonely can make you feel sad and is not good for your health.
High School Level Questions:
- What does Michael Easter suggest is the result of the shift from scarcity to abundance in modern society?
- Answer: He suggests that even though we have more than we need now, we still look for new challenges and problems, which can make us unhappy and cause health issues.
- How does Easter relate the increase in convenience to health issues?
- Answer: Easter explains that as life becomes more convenient and we have to do less physical work, like taking escalators instead of stairs, we see more health problems like cardiovascular diseases.
- How does Easter describe the impact of noise on health, according to his discussion with Bartlett?
- Answer: Easter says that too much noise from our environment can increase stress and even cause diseases like heart disease.
College Level Questions:
- Can you discuss the “scarcity loop” that Michael Easter describes and its relevance to modern technologies?
- Answer: The “scarcity loop” is a cycle of opportunity, unpredictable rewards, and quick repeatability that encourages repeated behavior. Modern technologies like social media, financial apps, and other platforms use this loop to keep people engaged by offering unpredictable rewards and the chance to quickly repeat actions.
- What psychological tactics do runners in East Africa use according to Easter, and how does this contrast with perceptions of discomfort in Western society?
- Answer: Runners in East Africa use the tactic of accepting and not resisting discomfort to improve their endurance, which contrasts with Western society where people often view fatigue and discomfort as negative and something to be avoided.
- How does Easter’s personal journey with overcoming addiction inform his perspective on modern challenges and comfort?
- Answer: Easter’s struggle with alcoholism showed him that addiction is often a symptom of deeper issues. His experience suggests that looking for productive ways to replace addictive behaviors is crucial, and it informs his perspective on the modern quest for comfort and the need to understand and manage our ancient instincts for gratification.