Relationships | Modern Wisdom Podcast | Mads Larsen | Podcast Summary | The Pod Slice
Transcript:
Studying mating ideologies is fundamentally important as these ideologies are the bedrock of all social orders, due to their role in human reproduction. Modern demands for mating often conflict with our biological impulses, necessitating an ideological system that directs and motivates individuals. Contemporary mating ideologies, however, have arguably become weaker, as choosing to have or not to have children is now a voluntary decision, made within the context of increasing cultural individualism.
Mads Larsen’s discussion of ancestral mating strategies begins six million years ago when humans were promiscuous like most vertebrates. Reproductive opportunities during this time were mostly limited to high-status males. Around four million years ago, due to ecological changes, our lineage saw a shift towards pair bonding, potentially as a result of conflict between high-status males hoarding females, or low-status males offering provisioning and protection to females in exchange for exclusive copulation.
This “sneaky strategy” may have led to a resource acquisition arms race between the high and low-status males. Over time, the majority of communities comprised largely faithful females and provisioning males, with a small proportion of polygamous and promiscuous maters.
In the years leading up to the Agricultural Revolution, monogamous pair bonding, with some level of polygamy, was common. However, in the post-agricultural world, extreme levels of polygyny were observed, due to the accumulation of resources. An interesting point is raised about a period around 7,000 to 5,000 years ago when an aberrant mating regime led to a 95% reduction in Y-chromosome diversity while X-chromosome diversity increased in tune with population growth. This suggests that the majority of males were killed, potentially during tribal raids, with the females and fields of the vanquished tribe being claimed by the victors.
These continual cycles of intertribal raiding only halted with the advent of broader societal constructs, such as the establishment of early religious and leadership ideologies, which facilitated cooperation beyond kin groups. This era also saw the development of more sophisticated social systems like slavery, which though inhumane, offered an alternative to genocide.
Honoring “heroic love”, the adherence of a woman to a victorious warrior, became a prevalent ideology during this time, reflecting the harsh conditions where men would often be killed or enslaved during conflicts, while women were often captured.
Mating ideologies play a substantial role in shaping cultures and in this context, Larsen delves deeper into the timely transformation from ‘heroic love’ to ‘courtly love’. Embellished with idealistic narratives of romance and emotional permanence, these seemingly enduring concepts of romance significantly undermined the former ideologies favoring heroic love.
The tenants of heroic love advocated for raw and undesired authority of males over the females, perhaps going as far as forced copulation. The onset of courtly love ideologies did not just play a pivotal role in mitigating this phenomenon, but also encouraged high-status men to limit themselves from polygamous relationships.
This invigorated a shift in the societal perspective, promoting emotions, love, and mutual understanding over forced power dynamics. It propagated the belief that men should exhibit sophisticated social skills and engage emotionally with women, thus encouraging mutual desire, rather than asserting unrequested dominance.
The story of courtly love primarily served a two-fold purpose. It discouraged the alarming societal norms and restructured the societal interaction norms, moving society from kinship-based suspicious interactions to a more welcoming and courteous approach. It laid the foundation for an effective cooperative society, essential for the functioning of feudal Europe.
In addition to the rise of courtly love, the Church played a fundamental role in controlling mating and marriages. As opposed to private marriages, the Gregorian reform emphasized Church marriages. There was a consequential rise in the marriage age, restricting sexual activities, and thereby controlling population growth.
This phenomenon was termed the “European Marriage Pattern” and was unique to the West. Through this process, the number of births could be controlled in an era when life was deemed sacred. Interestingly, the 15th century saw an period of sexual laxness – a period marked by an increase in sexual activities – likely due to a significant reduction in population caused by the Black Death.
The evolution of mating ideologies from the harsh realities of heroic love to the romanticized narratives of courtly love highlighted the ways in which society coped with change, making room for growth and pacifying societal norms. Through these transformations, the ideologies helped shape the societies we live in today.
Mads Larsen delves into a captivating analysis of the evolving ideologies surrounding mating in human culture, shaping the narrative from ‘heroic love’ to ‘courtly love’ and then to ‘companionate love’. His insightful commentary provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of the societal norms and the function they serve within the societal structure.
Highlighting ‘companionate love’, he reveals the pragmatic nature of this ideology and how it was the reality for most of European peasants. Surpassing the romantic rhetoric of courtly love, ‘companionate love’ emphasizes surviving together and running a farm, and caring for children as the main goal of a marriage, rather than the pursuit of romantic love.
The conversation veered cerebral as Larsen references interesting demographic shifts, mentioning there are more women childless rising at the age of 30 in the present era. Comparing it to around 500-600 years ago, he suggests a strikingly similar fertility pattern among women. This occurred due to social demands placed on them to accumulate resources, both men and women, before they were qualified to have a family.
More interestingly, Larsen states that this marked the beginning of female emancipation, with the church instituting what he dubs as the “first sexual revolution”. Women, for the first time, were given leverage in marriages. However, it wasn’t an entirely free choice as women could merely refuse a suitor but marriages were still arranged by the parents. Adding further depth, he explains how the church tried to control reproductive behaviors, which led to the demonization of female sexuality.
Larsen further elaborates on the puritanical approach of the society in the 1400s, attributing it to the necessity to maintain population growth. The control was primarily deployed on women, who were considered the ‘sexual selectors’. This period interestingly witnessed the demonization of promiscuous men as well, branding them as villains. However, he argues that despite this blame on men, women were considered more ‘pathological’ when desiring sex outside of marriage.
In response to Chris’s question, the discussion takes a philosophical turn when Larsen insightfully elucidates historical resolutions to control population growth – comparing infanticide, sexual restriction, and contraception. He emphasizes that the value held by Christianity towards respecting all life resulted in condemning the practice of infanticide.
Lastly, as the conversation deepens, Larsen introduces the term ‘Malthusian crisis’, explaining it as a factual stage of ‘stagnant per capita growth’ purposed to prevent Europeans from indulging in excessive procreation. It instigated the birth of puritanism that had an inevitable effect on sexual norms during the Middle Ages, and it was not until around 1750, that things began to change.
Continuing the intricate narrative on the evolution of humankind’s sexual ideologies, Mads Larsen mentions the onset of what he refers to as the ‘Second Sexual Revolution’ around 1750, introducing the concept of individual choice. Evidently, our ancestors didn’t evolve under conditions of individual choice when it came to mating. These decisions, Larsen explains, were typically dictated by our families and communities, causing many of us to struggle with attracting partners today.
Drilling into the societal changes around 1750, he points to the dissolution of Europe’s tribes that fundamentally altered our psychology. This journey driven by increasing individualization impacted societal norms. The commercial revolution played a significant role in fostering this change, with people working as wage earners and moving away from their families for jobs. This led to a soaring wave of sexual activity, especially among young people, and had massive repercussions.
Larsen humorously noted that the aptitude for flirting is an evolutionary outlier. It was not until around 250 years ago that men and women began choosing their own partners. Prior to that, mating decisions were either dictated or there was forced submission. This shift, though considered progress, led to an increase in premarital and extramarital sexual activities. This trend brought with it a surge in illegitimate births and abandoned children, particularly in Sweden, Stockholm, and Paris.
The Romantic Century (1750-1850) arose as a counter-reaction to the troubles brought on by this increased liberty in love. The ideology of romantic love yet again emphasized the sanctity of marriage and sex within its confines, had a counteractive effect on the Libertine or Casanova trend.
Larsen highlights a fascinating historical cycle. This pattern emerges of humanity bursting through societal norms, creating disruptions, after which collective moralistic ideologies or policies are implemented as a form of control. The 1800s were a time of Enlightenment, focused on individual rights, personal agency, and a dawning of the Industrial Revolution. This period saw a population explosion, offset through migration to America and other colonial territories.
Concluding his analysis, Larsen introduced ‘confluent love’, an ideology that champions gender equality, convenience, reward, and self-realization. This concept, incorporated into Scandinavian literature since 1839, has been the basis of the current belief in true gender equality and freedom in sexual practices. However, Larsen stressed that the environment was not ready for such a radical ideology during its inception.
In an engaging conversation, social historian Mads Larsen gives listeners a view into humanity’s intense journey with familial connections. Guiding Chris Williamson through the sequence of events that led to our current mating patterns, Larsen explains that the rise of individualism around 1750, bolstered by societal and commercial evolution, marked a significant shift in human relationships and communities. This resulted in a spike in sexual activity and its consequential societal changes, particularly in premarital and extramarital activities. These changes, as he humorously notes, made flirting an unexpected evolutionary trait.
This new norm fostered a cycle where social constraints were broken, only for moralistic ideologies or policies to be established to regain a sense of control. The Romantic Century, acting as a counter-movement to this new wave of free love, yet again solidified the importance of marriage and the requisite for sexual relations within its bounds.
Traditional industrial society started taking shape in the 19th century, marked by individual rights, personal agency, and an onset of the Industrial Revolution and population explosion. At this time, romantic love was the prevailing ideology, sanctifying marriage and ostracizing extramarital relationships.
Delving further into the topic, Larsen introduces ‘confluent love’, a concept focusing on gender equality, convenience, personal satisfaction, and self-realization in a romantic relationship. This idea, first imbued into Scandinavian literature some 180 years ago, forms the backbone of current perceptions of true gender equality and freedom in sexual practices. However, this radical ideology was deemed unfit for the times when it was first conceived.
Challenging societal norms of the time, confluent love suggests that two individuals are meant for each other only as long as they want to, distinct from the symbiotic or lifelong commitment espoused by romantic love. This transformation has been largely unidirectional and has heavily influenced the modern dating landscape, exacerbated by dating apps and wealth proliferation.
Yet, this shift towards individualism and increased reliance on convenience and utility in relationships carries with it certain negatives. As a result of gender equality and financial independence, relationships have become more selective and elastic, with an increased trend towards singledom. The decrease in fertility rates and an increase in ‘singlehood’ could be attributed to this change in preference, among other factors.
In the conversation, Chris Williamson and Mads Larsen discuss the impact of technological and societal changes on human relationships and mating rituals. As the conversation shifts towards dating in the modern era, Larsen points out that dating apps, a little over a decade old, are not fully understood, and the motivations driving these apps often go against our psychological needs and desires.
They talk about the shifts in mating preferences and tendencies due to societal influences and technology, stemming from six million-year-old impulses. We are in an entirely new regime of individual choice in mates, one for which we have not evolved. They question whether the West’s persistence with individual choice in relationships will be successful in the long run, despite a predicted decline in fertility rates.
Continuing with the conversation, they discuss ideology’s impact on reproductive tendencies. They point out that aspects like political leaning and worldview are highly heritable characteristics. Thus, if a political movement discourages reproduction, they term it a ‘dying breed’. They give examples like conservative Ashkanazi Jews and various Christian sects that are supposedly not facing any fertility problems.
Allowing for wild cards like AI’s influence and gene editing, they discuss the prospects of a fourth sexual Revolution coinciding with the fourth Industrial Revolution. This may allow for babies to be created outside of women’s wombs, genetic modifications, AI robot lovers, and so on. They agree on the massive technological novelties that could revolutionize society at a fundamental level, thus completely altering how mating is perceived.
Larsen points out how the foundation of every social order is mating, so the question becomes how these new technologies will affect mating and create the basis for a new social structure. They also discuss some grave concerns, such as people struggling with the ever-evolving mating traditions, the rise of ‘involuntary singletons’, and a general increase in anxiety, depressive states, feelings of hopelessness, and so on. They agree on the need for empathy, understanding and kindness to navigate these stressful times. They imply that though these technological advancements might shake our mating history’s etch-a-sketch, understanding and empathizing with each other’s plights will always remain essential.
In their continued discussion, Williamson and Larsen explore how technology’s evolution and societal changes are impacting well-being, particularly among younger people. Larsen presents Norway’s ‘Men’s Panel,’ a research council aiming to understand why men are falling behind. However, he spotlights a significant gap in their study – the exclusion of ‘mating marginalization’ or the stratification occurring in the modern dating market.
Larsen stresses that if more men are excluded from short and long-term mating due to their perceived low value in the modern environment, it’s plausible they also experience marginalized circumstances in other life areas. However, no relevant statistics or research allow for a complete comprehension of how much unhappiness arises from this mating exclusion.
The conversation further underscores the intense adaptability humans need to cope with rapid societal changes. Williamson and Larsen note that technological acceleration and shifts in worldviews could easily lead to feelings of loss of control, fostering a victimhood mindset that can contribute to higher depression rates and a decline in individuals’ sense of agency.
Larsen moves on to discuss his work on well-being, pointing out an alarming reduction in well-being amongst young Norwegians. Multiple factors like social media, economic fear, and uncertainty about the future seem to be crushing their spirits. He suggests that the current transformative times, in which liberal humanism narratives are fading, are weighing heavily on the psyche, leading to discord, anxiety, and lack of faith in the future.
However, he holds a positive outlook, forecasting that humanity could enter a new ‘golden age’. He propounds a potential transition into a ‘datest master narrative’, coinciding with the fourth Industrial Revolution.
Larsen also highlights a recent Norwegian survey showing a sharp happiness decline among the young and middle-aged, with due gratitude seen amongst the retirement-aged Norwegians. He notes that this generational happiness shift could be boiled down to the realization of the older generation that they timed their lives perfectly, therefore comforting them despite the gloomy outlook for their children and grandchildren.
Notably, they reflect on the concept of relative happiness and how comparison to the reference group influences it. Social media has exponentially enlarged this group for young people, making them compare their lives with global celebrities, inflating their dissatisfaction levels. Despite the many shifts humans are experiencing, the talk brings out the theme that consistent progression and overcoming crises through personal resources contribute to a happier life.
Building upon the conversation, Williamson and Larsen open an intriguing debate about the dilemma faced by successful individuals regarding their children’s upbringing – whether to extend the fruits of their hard work, potentially spoiling or weakening their drive, or whether to withhold, allowing them to suffer and grow through hardships, much like their predecessors. This predicament seemingly offers no clear direction and creates a challenging quandary for successful parents.
Furthermore, the conversation pivots to the perception of individual success within a relative scale. They discuss diverse examples, from Eddie Hearn, a high-profile boxing promoter who expanded his father’s business to the story of Metallica’s drummer on his subsequent creation of successful band Mega Death – both still devoid of contentment due to an imagined gap between their achievements and what could have been.
Williamson and Larsen also question the ideal pace of success. They debate whether slow and consistent progression, accumulating material worth over the years, is more beneficial than a sudden surge in wealth, like winning the lottery. This pondering grows out of a proposed theory about the potential perils of achieving swift success, which may leave individuals feeling empty or unfulfilled, once known as “gold medal syndrome”.
The discussion then veers towards an alternative source of well-being – Meaning. Larsen proposes that true well-being, conceptualized as ‘happiness plus meaning,’ can extend beyond happiness derived from personal success. He suggests that as individualistic success reaches a saturation point, philanthropy and serving others offer another source of meaning and satisfaction. While happiness may be fleeting, meaning has potential longevity, accumulating over a lifetime and flourishing with age. This perspective prompts a discussion on the ‘devoted actor theory,’ where individuals derive intense meaning from serving a cause or ideology, sometimes even leading to self-sacrifice.
Larsen’s thoughts point to a broader spectrum of well-being, wherein personal success and communal contribution coexist harmoniously, creating a balance that fosters longevity and deep satisfaction. The conversation posits a thought-provoking perspective on concepts of success, happiness, relative achievement, and the profound influence that service to others can play in individual well-being.
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